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	<title>Comments on: From the horse&#8217;s mouth: the Ontario PC plan to abandon green and go nuclear</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/</link>
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		<title>By: WBestward</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-62813</link>
		<dc:creator>WBestward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 04:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-62813</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The direction that the PCs are taking makes no sense to me- in light of the cost and concerns surrounding nuclear power production and toxic waste when it makes so much more sense to go green- with solar and wind.  It seemed like they were forging ahead by supporting green energy projects that would benefit the future but now are ditching that to return to the same old ways of generating power that have been proven to be problematic for a long time now. Makes me wonder why they have done a 360 degree turnaround- someone must be benefitting from this but it is certainly not us!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The direction that the PCs are taking makes no sense to me- in light of the cost and concerns surrounding nuclear power production and toxic waste when it makes so much more sense to go green- with solar and wind.  It seemed like they were forging ahead by supporting green energy projects that would benefit the future but now are ditching that to return to the same old ways of generating power that have been proven to be problematic for a long time now. Makes me wonder why they have done a 360 degree turnaround- someone must be benefitting from this but it is certainly not us!!</p>
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		<title>By: KL</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-62570</link>
		<dc:creator>KL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-62570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Conservation makes businesses more competitive, productive, and profitable.  It is alot cheaper than any form of energy.  I would take on Hudak or Harper any day and get them to debate these facts.  This is where the environment and the economy run in a positive parallel and any conservative that makes you believe otherwise is not looking at the facts. They only represent special lobbys and not best interests of Ontarians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservation makes businesses more competitive, productive, and profitable.  It is alot cheaper than any form of energy.  I would take on Hudak or Harper any day and get them to debate these facts.  This is where the environment and the economy run in a positive parallel and any conservative that makes you believe otherwise is not looking at the facts. They only represent special lobbys and not best interests of Ontarians.</p>
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		<title>By: steve lapp</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-62425</link>
		<dc:creator>steve lapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-62425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The special interest groups re. energy in ontario come from all directions, nuclear, gas, oil, they are called &quot;businesses&quot; how McNaughton doesn&#039;t get that, i don&#039;t understand.  We know the costs of renewable forms of energy, and we know the costs of energy consrvation and demand management, I challenge any nuclear power advocate to show me the LCOE for electricty with a degree of certainty that does not require a government to back that cost. 

I also ask the advocates of nuclear power to ask themsleves what they would want as compensation if they were one of the 100,000 people in Japan who will not go back to their homes for a generation or more. What possible reason is there to go nuclear, when wind, solar, natural gas, hydro, and energy conservation offer a future without waste disposal, cost over runs or risk of accident.

I have written a couple of times to the Provincial government suggesting we need an open consult with the power sector providers to develop various renewable and nuclear scenarios for Ontario and have extended public consultation on what the people of Ontario want. I know what I want, but I do not beleive the bulk of people in Ontario have seen realistic options, they have just heard noise without supporting data.

Nuclear power as an alternative to renewable energy fits the conservative mindset well, in that it is the antithesis of progress.

Cheers]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The special interest groups re. energy in ontario come from all directions, nuclear, gas, oil, they are called &#8220;businesses&#8221; how McNaughton doesn&#8217;t get that, i don&#8217;t understand.  We know the costs of renewable forms of energy, and we know the costs of energy consrvation and demand management, I challenge any nuclear power advocate to show me the LCOE for electricty with a degree of certainty that does not require a government to back that cost. </p>
<p>I also ask the advocates of nuclear power to ask themsleves what they would want as compensation if they were one of the 100,000 people in Japan who will not go back to their homes for a generation or more. What possible reason is there to go nuclear, when wind, solar, natural gas, hydro, and energy conservation offer a future without waste disposal, cost over runs or risk of accident.</p>
<p>I have written a couple of times to the Provincial government suggesting we need an open consult with the power sector providers to develop various renewable and nuclear scenarios for Ontario and have extended public consultation on what the people of Ontario want. I know what I want, but I do not beleive the bulk of people in Ontario have seen realistic options, they have just heard noise without supporting data.</p>
<p>Nuclear power as an alternative to renewable energy fits the conservative mindset well, in that it is the antithesis of progress.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: crf</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-62193</link>
		<dc:creator>crf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-62193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The long-term dangers of nuclear accidents we&#039;ve so far had have proven to be small. And they pale utterly to the dangers of climate change. They pale to the dangers of fossil-fuel derived generation. I don&#039;t think Hudak is capable of forming good plans for Ontario&#039;s power generation mix, and his radicalism against wind energy is dismaying, but you playing people&#039;s irrational fears will only help play Ontario into his hands.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The long-term dangers of nuclear accidents we&#8217;ve so far had have proven to be small. And they pale utterly to the dangers of climate change. They pale to the dangers of fossil-fuel derived generation. I don&#8217;t think Hudak is capable of forming good plans for Ontario&#8217;s power generation mix, and his radicalism against wind energy is dismaying, but you playing people&#8217;s irrational fears will only help play Ontario into his hands.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Laplante</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-62031</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Laplante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-62031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The biggest issues seem to have to do with contracting and visibility of rates and not just technology.

Of course nuclear, wind, and hydro are not interchangeable, in part because of technical characteristics that affect their availability and in part because of contracts that say whether they have to be paid for electricity that is too expensive to use at that time.  People get hung up on the HOEP price, but really relatively little electricity is produced at that price.  Most nuclear has a guaranteed floor price, and is resistant to most economic dispatching, meaning sometimes you would like them to produce less even if you pay them for it but they won&#039;t. Wind is increasingly dispatchable and most wind is pre-FIT and therefore 8-9 cents.  Coal plants get paid not to produce, and some gas plants.  Some hydro also has resistance to dispatching.  Among the rest, many of them are willing to accept a zero or negative price which makes us look bad in times of surplus baseload.  Consumers, unaware that they too are getting that electricity for free, believe that they must be paying the difference and there is a small accidental grain of truth behind that misunderstanding.

The myth of the low price of nuclear comes from a misunderstanding of the contracts.  You can get it at that price but not when you want it, and you will have high fixed costs.  The contracts will drive technology to allow new nuclear to follow load better.  Expanding Hydro is also a misunderstanding.  Remote hydro sounds cheap but the line losses from northern Ontario are about 30-35%.  You pay them 10 cents but it costs you 14 by the time it gets to you.  Most of the cheap hydro is already in use.

You can&#039;t have a decent election question on energy.  Very few people know what is the impact of different technologies on price or reliability.  We have had decisions based on health and environment  objectives and there&#039;s nothing wrong with that.  Those were achievable and were by and large achieved.  It would be economically more efficient to embody those health and environment decisions within a carbon price and let the market deliver them but let&#039;s not fool ourselves into thinking that there is a market in electricity.  Maybe the next step would be to create a market by eliminating most of the price negotiations in contracts, whether nuclear or FIT and let the market take care of minimizing the price.  Maybe the first step would be to cap &amp; prorate the Global Adjustment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest issues seem to have to do with contracting and visibility of rates and not just technology.</p>
<p>Of course nuclear, wind, and hydro are not interchangeable, in part because of technical characteristics that affect their availability and in part because of contracts that say whether they have to be paid for electricity that is too expensive to use at that time.  People get hung up on the HOEP price, but really relatively little electricity is produced at that price.  Most nuclear has a guaranteed floor price, and is resistant to most economic dispatching, meaning sometimes you would like them to produce less even if you pay them for it but they won&#8217;t. Wind is increasingly dispatchable and most wind is pre-FIT and therefore 8-9 cents.  Coal plants get paid not to produce, and some gas plants.  Some hydro also has resistance to dispatching.  Among the rest, many of them are willing to accept a zero or negative price which makes us look bad in times of surplus baseload.  Consumers, unaware that they too are getting that electricity for free, believe that they must be paying the difference and there is a small accidental grain of truth behind that misunderstanding.</p>
<p>The myth of the low price of nuclear comes from a misunderstanding of the contracts.  You can get it at that price but not when you want it, and you will have high fixed costs.  The contracts will drive technology to allow new nuclear to follow load better.  Expanding Hydro is also a misunderstanding.  Remote hydro sounds cheap but the line losses from northern Ontario are about 30-35%.  You pay them 10 cents but it costs you 14 by the time it gets to you.  Most of the cheap hydro is already in use.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t have a decent election question on energy.  Very few people know what is the impact of different technologies on price or reliability.  We have had decisions based on health and environment  objectives and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that.  Those were achievable and were by and large achieved.  It would be economically more efficient to embody those health and environment decisions within a carbon price and let the market deliver them but let&#8217;s not fool ourselves into thinking that there is a market in electricity.  Maybe the next step would be to create a market by eliminating most of the price negotiations in contracts, whether nuclear or FIT and let the market take care of minimizing the price.  Maybe the first step would be to cap &amp; prorate the Global Adjustment.</p>
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		<title>By: Parker Gallant</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-61635</link>
		<dc:creator>Parker Gallant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 16:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-61635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So their is no difference between the current Liberal policy on nuclear build/refurbishment and the PC plan.  The big difference is that the PCs would kill new wind and solar.  &quot;vive la difference&quot;  as the current GEA policy has been a disaster.  The rest of the World (US being the exception as they head for their debt mountain) is running away from it too as it consistently presents itself when we don&#039;t need it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So their is no difference between the current Liberal policy on nuclear build/refurbishment and the PC plan.  The big difference is that the PCs would kill new wind and solar.  &#8220;vive la difference&#8221;  as the current GEA policy has been a disaster.  The rest of the World (US being the exception as they head for their debt mountain) is running away from it too as it consistently presents itself when we don&#8217;t need it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Hill Highland Solar</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-61621</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Hill Highland Solar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-61621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Bruce Sharp...I don&#039;t see how you can claim that wind is a worse transgressor than nuclear? Are you concerned that so many of the un-founded &quot;Wind turbine syndrome&#039; ailments will affect future generations worse than the well-documented carry-on effects of waste and debt management caused by nuclear?

I work in the renewables industry. I am not a &quot;Tree-Hugger&quot; or a paid up member of &quot;The Bikenstock Brigade&quot;. I AM a concerned member of the public. I AM a parent. I do think about the legacy our generation will leave for the future. I AM a taxpayer who is sick to death of having whichever party is in power basically toady to an &quot;old boys network&quot; when itcomes to the province&#039;s power supply.

We have just had our sector shut down for an entire year by the Liberal Government and the OPA...(Don&#039;t you DARE tell me that they are as behind the program as you might think they are, or the 200+ companies I deal with that went out of business over that time would still be in operation!)

We have just seen the tariff rates reduce: Residential rooftop solar (Only a small fraction of the program) from 80.2¢ down to 54.9¢ -32%, Megawatt sized commercial solar rates have dropped 22% from 44.3¢ to 34.7¢ and wind rates are now as low as 11.5¢ reflecting a nearly 15% reduction.

The renewable sector has created thousands of direct and indirect jobs since 2009. It has produced literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in immediate economic stimulus, ALL USING PRIVATE SECTOR CAPITAL. The costs of the equipment and the power is automatically &#039;amortized&#039; over the 20 year contract period to the public (Unlike the cost of a nuclear plant where the debt costs simply balloon over the subsequent generations, putting us in the mess we are in now with the costs of Bruce, Darlington and Pickering).

A privately owned solar panel or wind turbine facility does not require seven or eight &quot;sweet-deal&quot; public service employees/union members due to demarcation or work duplication to operate and maintain it, when only one or two private sector employees can perform the same tasks (at a lower cost too I would likey guess).

I can continue....but I think I have begun to make a point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bruce Sharp&#8230;I don&#8217;t see how you can claim that wind is a worse transgressor than nuclear? Are you concerned that so many of the un-founded &#8220;Wind turbine syndrome&#8217; ailments will affect future generations worse than the well-documented carry-on effects of waste and debt management caused by nuclear?</p>
<p>I work in the renewables industry. I am not a &#8220;Tree-Hugger&#8221; or a paid up member of &#8220;The Bikenstock Brigade&#8221;. I AM a concerned member of the public. I AM a parent. I do think about the legacy our generation will leave for the future. I AM a taxpayer who is sick to death of having whichever party is in power basically toady to an &#8220;old boys network&#8221; when itcomes to the province&#8217;s power supply.</p>
<p>We have just had our sector shut down for an entire year by the Liberal Government and the OPA&#8230;(Don&#8217;t you DARE tell me that they are as behind the program as you might think they are, or the 200+ companies I deal with that went out of business over that time would still be in operation!)</p>
<p>We have just seen the tariff rates reduce: Residential rooftop solar (Only a small fraction of the program) from 80.2¢ down to 54.9¢ -32%, Megawatt sized commercial solar rates have dropped 22% from 44.3¢ to 34.7¢ and wind rates are now as low as 11.5¢ reflecting a nearly 15% reduction.</p>
<p>The renewable sector has created thousands of direct and indirect jobs since 2009. It has produced literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in immediate economic stimulus, ALL USING PRIVATE SECTOR CAPITAL. The costs of the equipment and the power is automatically &#8216;amortized&#8217; over the 20 year contract period to the public (Unlike the cost of a nuclear plant where the debt costs simply balloon over the subsequent generations, putting us in the mess we are in now with the costs of Bruce, Darlington and Pickering).</p>
<p>A privately owned solar panel or wind turbine facility does not require seven or eight &#8220;sweet-deal&#8221; public service employees/union members due to demarcation or work duplication to operate and maintain it, when only one or two private sector employees can perform the same tasks (at a lower cost too I would likey guess).</p>
<p>I can continue&#8230;.but I think I have begun to make a point.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather Black</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-61607</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-61607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[People don&#039;t appear to understand that, when the wind does not blow and it&#039;s cloudy, you cannot rely on wind or solar! We need base load energy production such as nuclear or hydro. OPG is not stupid and we&#039;re not in Germany - who now burn fossil fuel for base load energy. OPG knows what needs to be done to provide energy and they are driving the political decisions. It&#039;s the ignorant that wave the green non-nuclear flags that send us into conflict. How about &quot;let&#039;s make nuclear as safe as possible?&quot; and live with it. It&#039;s cheap, reliable, and manageable. All the nuclear waste in  the country fits into 1 soccar field (2m high).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People don&#8217;t appear to understand that, when the wind does not blow and it&#8217;s cloudy, you cannot rely on wind or solar! We need base load energy production such as nuclear or hydro. OPG is not stupid and we&#8217;re not in Germany &#8211; who now burn fossil fuel for base load energy. OPG knows what needs to be done to provide energy and they are driving the political decisions. It&#8217;s the ignorant that wave the green non-nuclear flags that send us into conflict. How about &#8220;let&#8217;s make nuclear as safe as possible?&#8221; and live with it. It&#8217;s cheap, reliable, and manageable. All the nuclear waste in  the country fits into 1 soccar field (2m high).</p>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-61501</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 03:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-61501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wind is a huge issue for rural Ontario families but no one seems to want to hear about it.  The Liberal Green Energy Act has created many problems and denies any issues.  People have had to abandon their homes and property values have tanked.  We need to find a better way - the FIT program is a huge fail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wind is a huge issue for rural Ontario families but no one seems to want to hear about it.  The Liberal Green Energy Act has created many problems and denies any issues.  People have had to abandon their homes and property values have tanked.  We need to find a better way &#8211; the FIT program is a huge fail.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Gagne</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2013/01/05/from-the-horses-mouth-the-ontario-pc-plan-to-abandon-green-and-go-nuclear/comment-page-1/#comment-61474</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Gagne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=4106#comment-61474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s not forget how renewable power has a few advantages over nuclear:

- More jobs per dollar invested, or per MW generated.
- Distributed power stabilizes the electricity grid. Rooftop solar, in particular, requires negligible transmission costs.
- Free fuel for the life of the equipment.
- Non-polluting fuel, compared to nuclear&#039;s lethal waste and weapons proliferation.
- Construction times of renewables are a small fraction of that for nuclear power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not forget how renewable power has a few advantages over nuclear:</p>
<p>- More jobs per dollar invested, or per MW generated.<br />
- Distributed power stabilizes the electricity grid. Rooftop solar, in particular, requires negligible transmission costs.<br />
- Free fuel for the life of the equipment.<br />
- Non-polluting fuel, compared to nuclear&#8217;s lethal waste and weapons proliferation.<br />
- Construction times of renewables are a small fraction of that for nuclear power.</p>
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