Comments on: Cost of new nuclear in Ontario? Anywhere from $7,400 to $10,800 per kilowatt, depending on your appetite for risk http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/ Trends, happenings and innovations in the clean technology market Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:42:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Recent nuclear power cost estimates – separating fact from myth « BraveNewClimate.com http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6595 Recent nuclear power cost estimates – separating fact from myth « BraveNewClimate.com Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:18:24 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6595 [...] address this critique, I use the example of the recent claims of Joe Romm on Climate Progress and Tyler Hamilton on Clean Break. They claim that the cost of new (Gen III+) nuclear power in Ontaria, Canada, based on [...] [...] address this critique, I use the example of the recent claims of Joe Romm on Climate Progress and Tyler Hamilton on Clean Break. They claim that the cost of new (Gen III+) nuclear power in Ontaria, Canada, based on [...]

]]> By: Cyril R. http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6171 Cyril R. Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:18:50 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6171 @ BC Green: A gas turbine operating at 5% capacity factor can be very profitable because it's selling at the highest (peak) value per kWh. Gas turbines are wondrously flexible, giving them a good bargaining position in day to day power markets. Actually, most of the gas turbine peakers operate in the 10-40% capacity factor. They can operate in 90+% utilization but coal is cheaper for that purpose in most grids today. Higher utilization is often done with combined cycle gas turbines because they are more efficient and running them more of the time, then, justifies the extra investment and complexities. Nuclear plants sell pretty much all the time (deep baseload). Not a very good average selling price. Anyways, even with that nuclear plant you'd still need to build new gas fired peaking generation, so it's not an either or comarision. Gas turbines and nuclear baseload is in fact a very good combination. There is competition with 60% efficient combined cycle natural gas power plants vs nuclear as these plants can be run anywhere from load following to baseload. Such a plant can be built for under 1500 USD/kWe anywhere in the world so natural gas prices have to be heroic for nuclear power to be able to compete, even when the benefit of greater dispatchability for the combined cycle powerplant isn't valued strongly. (In the future, there will hopefully be more attention to demand management such as end use thermal storage for peak shaving and greater flexibility in general no matter what the future energy mix will be.) @ BC Green: A gas turbine operating at 5% capacity factor can be very profitable because it’s selling at the highest (peak) value per kWh. Gas turbines are wondrously flexible, giving them a good bargaining position in day to day power markets. Actually, most of the gas turbine peakers operate in the 10-40% capacity factor. They can operate in 90+% utilization but coal is cheaper for that purpose in most grids today. Higher utilization is often done with combined cycle gas turbines because they are more efficient and running them more of the time, then, justifies the extra investment and complexities.

Nuclear plants sell pretty much all the time (deep baseload). Not a very good average selling price.

Anyways, even with that nuclear plant you’d still need to build new gas fired peaking generation, so it’s not an either or comarision. Gas turbines and nuclear baseload is in fact a very good combination. There is competition with 60% efficient combined cycle natural gas power plants vs nuclear as these plants can be run anywhere from load following to baseload. Such a plant can be built for under 1500 USD/kWe anywhere in the world so natural gas prices have to be heroic for nuclear power to be able to compete, even when the benefit of greater dispatchability for the combined cycle powerplant isn’t valued strongly. (In the future, there will hopefully be more attention to demand management such as end use thermal storage for peak shaving and greater flexibility in general no matter what the future energy mix will be.)

]]> By: BC Green... http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6108 BC Green... Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:52:58 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6108 If one looks at the cost of the new gas turbine plants that are going in - costing $360M and producing 300 MW, the cost is about $1,200/kW. But with utilization expected to be less than 5% - and fuel costs added (at about 30% efficiency) this is very costly energy... Most new generation can be costed this way, but one needs to consider utilization that can be achieved reasonably. Many of the newer large hydro plants have costs of $3,000 - $5,000/kW and they are capable of running only 30-40% of the time at full load. It may ba a little unfair to compare the peaker plant that is only needed a few hours annually with a plant that will be base loaded and likely run with an annual load factor of near 90%, but the need to fully compare is real - and decomissioning costs also need to be included. If one looks at the cost of the new gas turbine plants that are going in – costing $360M and producing 300 MW, the cost is about $1,200/kW. But with utilization expected to be less than 5% – and fuel costs added (at about 30% efficiency) this is very costly energy… Most new generation can be costed this way, but one needs to consider utilization that can be achieved reasonably.

Many of the newer large hydro plants have costs of $3,000 – $5,000/kW and they are capable of running only 30-40% of the time at full load.

It may ba a little unfair to compare the peaker plant that is only needed a few hours annually with a plant that will be base loaded and likely run with an annual load factor of near 90%, but the need to fully compare is real – and decomissioning costs also need to be included.

]]> By: Nuclear Bombshell: $26 Billion cost — $10,800 per kilowatt! — killed Ontario nuclear bid | Climate Vine http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6057 Nuclear Bombshell: $26 Billion cost — $10,800 per kilowatt! — killed Ontario nuclear bid | Climate Vine Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:23:46 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6057 [...] explains on his blog, Areva “was deemed non-compliant, however, likely because Areva wouldn’t guarantee the [...] [...] explains on his blog, Areva “was deemed non-compliant, however, likely because Areva wouldn’t guarantee the [...]

]]> By: Darklamp http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6056 Darklamp Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:11:12 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6056 The Olkiluoto Plant in Finland, Europe's newest nuclear reactor is costing around US$4000 /kW. It is smaller than the ACR and after four years of construction, it is still not finished. France's Areva is building this plant and the cost/time overruns are making headlines. The Olkiluoto Plant in Finland, Europe’s newest nuclear reactor is costing around US$4000 /kW. It is smaller than the ACR and after four years of construction, it is still not finished. France’s Areva is building this plant and the cost/time overruns are making headlines.

]]> By: Magoo http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6052 Magoo Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:37:25 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6052 Weird, I don't remember seeing anything about $26 Billion on the AECL <a href="http://www.pickcandu.ca/" rel="nofollow">PickCandu</a> site. They must have forgot to mention it. Weird, I don’t remember seeing anything about $26 Billion on the AECL PickCandu site. They must have forgot to mention it.

]]> By: KL http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6050 KL Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:28:33 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6050 You know that GE CHP 12MW bioplant you wrote about a month or two ago. Great Northern Hydroponics is building one in Kingsville, ON. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/07/combined-heat-power-greenhouse.php?dcitc=daily_nl You know that GE CHP 12MW bioplant you wrote about a month or two ago. Great Northern Hydroponics is building one in Kingsville, ON.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/07/combined-heat-power-greenhouse.php?dcitc=daily_nl

]]> By: Billig kärnkraft! « Lunkens blogg http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6047 Billig kärnkraft! « Lunkens blogg Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:07:19 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6047 [...] SEK, vilket ger 175 miljarder SEK för dessa två reaktorer, eller 73000 SEK per kW. Läs mer på Clean Break och Toronto [...] [...] SEK, vilket ger 175 miljarder SEK för dessa två reaktorer, eller 73000 SEK per kW. Läs mer på Clean Break och Toronto [...]

]]> By: Ted Hsu http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/07/14/cost-of-new-nuclear-in-ontario-anywhere-from-7400-to-10800-per-kilowatt-depending-on-your-appetite-for-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-6046 Ted Hsu Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:50:35 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1734#comment-6046 What sort of numbers ($/Watt) do people get for the other costs of nuclear (operation, decommissioning, waste disposal)? What sort of numbers ($/Watt) do people get for the other costs of nuclear (operation, decommissioning, waste disposal)?

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