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	<title>Comments on: Continental first: Ontario proposes ambitious feed-in tariffs for wind, solar, biogas/biomass and hydro</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/</link>
	<description>Trends, happenings and innovations in the clean technology market</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:00:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tyler Baylis</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-9081</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler Baylis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-9081</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just trying to get some sort of idea of what Ontario Hydro pays a producer for 1 Mwh to understand how it would be possible to produce electricity and sell it to Hydro
thanks,
 Tyler Baylis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just trying to get some sort of idea of what Ontario Hydro pays a producer for 1 Mwh to understand how it would be possible to produce electricity and sell it to Hydro<br />
thanks,<br />
 Tyler Baylis</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan W</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-8305</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-8305</guid>
		<description>I agree with Steven S.  I think people are better off utilizing a certain technology because it suits their needs and not because it is actively promoted or subsidized by the government.  Solar thermal and wind power are much more accessible to the general public.  A person may make more money selling pv power than they will selling their wind power, true, but wind power technology is much more low-tech, which I love, and, therefore, much easier to repair and manufacture then photo voltaic panels.  It makes more sense for people to set up a solar thermal system to heat their water and homes.  Combine this with a few small wind turbines (I am partial to vertical axis, myself, they are easy to make) with a capacity of 100W each, include a battery bank for storage, then replace all your bulbs with LED and use electricity more efficiently in general.  It is possible to produce enough electricity to run a house and buy only that little extra that you may require on occasion. Free Power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Steven S.  I think people are better off utilizing a certain technology because it suits their needs and not because it is actively promoted or subsidized by the government.  Solar thermal and wind power are much more accessible to the general public.  A person may make more money selling pv power than they will selling their wind power, true, but wind power technology is much more low-tech, which I love, and, therefore, much easier to repair and manufacture then photo voltaic panels.  It makes more sense for people to set up a solar thermal system to heat their water and homes.  Combine this with a few small wind turbines (I am partial to vertical axis, myself, they are easy to make) with a capacity of 100W each, include a battery bank for storage, then replace all your bulbs with LED and use electricity more efficiently in general.  It is possible to produce enough electricity to run a house and buy only that little extra that you may require on occasion. Free Power.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven S</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-8295</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-8295</guid>
		<description>I have been in the solar thermal business since 1985. The gov&#039;t had a dhw program that paid 50% of the cost of a system in the 80&#039;s . So a bunch of companies started up and made systems . As soon as the program ended the companies close because the price doubled. Anytime the gov&#039;t gets involved ,it creates a false market. These subsidies won&#039;t last forever even if you think they will -- they won&#039;t, a different party gets in or budget problems. We do not get involved in any gov&#039;t programs and we have been in business for 24 yrs. We produce our own dhw system for less than than the gov&#039;t subsided one . The only way solar will thrive is consumers buying solar not gov&#039;t subsidized solar. In the solar pool business it is not subsidized and does the best. Our sales have increasesd 10-20 % each year and NO GOV&#039;T.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been in the solar thermal business since 1985. The gov&#8217;t had a dhw program that paid 50% of the cost of a system in the 80&#8217;s . So a bunch of companies started up and made systems . As soon as the program ended the companies close because the price doubled. Anytime the gov&#8217;t gets involved ,it creates a false market. These subsidies won&#8217;t last forever even if you think they will &#8212; they won&#8217;t, a different party gets in or budget problems. We do not get involved in any gov&#8217;t programs and we have been in business for 24 yrs. We produce our own dhw system for less than than the gov&#8217;t subsided one . The only way solar will thrive is consumers buying solar not gov&#8217;t subsidized solar. In the solar pool business it is not subsidized and does the best. Our sales have increasesd 10-20 % each year and NO GOV&#8217;T.</p>
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		<title>By: Manny Bade</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-7361</link>
		<dc:creator>Manny Bade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-7361</guid>
		<description>Yakman has a point.  After all, the government promised 50,000 jobs.  So, if the 40% content rule is not to be strictly enforced, then how can they achieve this goal?

Yes, I have talked to other suppliers, and they are saying that they too can meet the 40% domestic content rule.  The tracking is the key (brackets and frames).  These are more seasoned suppliers who have installed PVs for years even before the FIT and the RESOP had been around.  That time there were no Chinese made brackets so they had to make their own.  Now, all they need to do is go back to making their own - meeting the 40% content rule and giving jobs to Canadians, not exporting it somewhere else.

Manny Bade</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yakman has a point.  After all, the government promised 50,000 jobs.  So, if the 40% content rule is not to be strictly enforced, then how can they achieve this goal?</p>
<p>Yes, I have talked to other suppliers, and they are saying that they too can meet the 40% domestic content rule.  The tracking is the key (brackets and frames).  These are more seasoned suppliers who have installed PVs for years even before the FIT and the RESOP had been around.  That time there were no Chinese made brackets so they had to make their own.  Now, all they need to do is go back to making their own &#8211; meeting the 40% content rule and giving jobs to Canadians, not exporting it somewhere else.</p>
<p>Manny Bade</p>
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		<title>By: Yakman</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-7336</link>
		<dc:creator>Yakman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-7336</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s strange but I have spoken to three suppliers of PV systems and they all say that they can meet the 40% content rule for microFIT projects.  I think if someone invested heavily in foreign product, they are going to find it more difficult to meet the new rules.  But if the rules were easy to meet with exsitng suppliers - how would they encourage new manufacturers to locate here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s strange but I have spoken to three suppliers of PV systems and they all say that they can meet the 40% content rule for microFIT projects.  I think if someone invested heavily in foreign product, they are going to find it more difficult to meet the new rules.  But if the rules were easy to meet with exsitng suppliers &#8211; how would they encourage new manufacturers to locate here?</p>
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		<title>By: Manny Bade</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-7270</link>
		<dc:creator>Manny Bade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-7270</guid>
		<description>Rick Guthrie is absolutely right.  I was talking to other dealers and they are scrambling right now. Nothing solar really significant is manufactured in Ontario.  Even the frames and brackets are made elsewhere (China specifically).  Our solar 5x concentrator has a definite advantage price-wise since it can be sold to consumers at less than $3 per Watt - including the brackets and frames.  The installation can qualify as Ontario content, but what about the inverters?  Wow, after waiting for months this is what we get.  As Rick says it may take us 3 years before we can really start in earnest, unless the government reverses this rule and give rebates to Ontario made products.  That makes more sense.

Manny Bade
Poulek Solar Company Ltd. - Canadian Operation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick Guthrie is absolutely right.  I was talking to other dealers and they are scrambling right now. Nothing solar really significant is manufactured in Ontario.  Even the frames and brackets are made elsewhere (China specifically).  Our solar 5x concentrator has a definite advantage price-wise since it can be sold to consumers at less than $3 per Watt &#8211; including the brackets and frames.  The installation can qualify as Ontario content, but what about the inverters?  Wow, after waiting for months this is what we get.  As Rick says it may take us 3 years before we can really start in earnest, unless the government reverses this rule and give rebates to Ontario made products.  That makes more sense.</p>
<p>Manny Bade<br />
Poulek Solar Company Ltd. &#8211; Canadian Operation</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Guthrie</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-7228</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Guthrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-7228</guid>
		<description>I was very excited about the offering for smaller micro projects until I found out about the Ontario content rules. I am a renewable energy dealer in North eastern Ontario. This was what I have been waiting for after neing in the business over 10 years. Unfortunatley to my knowledge there aren&#039;t any solar module or inverter manufcaturers in Ontario. The only one that comes close dosn&#039;t qualify as they source their cells offshore and only assemble them in Ontario. It will likley be 3 years before we can get a plant or plants up and running. Those who manage to start manufacturing first will likley charge huge prices running the startup costs to the consumer with modules in short supply to satify demand. It is admirable that the Ontario government would like to encourage buy in Ontario, but this leaves me and others like me waiting for another three years. I would think the domestic content should be lifted and a rebate be offered for Ontario content. We need to create the market now and get up and running. Those of us that have been in the business from installers, distributors and manufactures have been ready to meet the demad for years now. Lets get this wonderful opportunity going!
I see that TransCanada is building a huge gas fired generating plant in Ontario and I don&#039;t see that they are required to use natural gas made in Ontario.
Was this an oversight or by design?
Rick Guthrie
Temiskaming Independent Energy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was very excited about the offering for smaller micro projects until I found out about the Ontario content rules. I am a renewable energy dealer in North eastern Ontario. This was what I have been waiting for after neing in the business over 10 years. Unfortunatley to my knowledge there aren&#8217;t any solar module or inverter manufcaturers in Ontario. The only one that comes close dosn&#8217;t qualify as they source their cells offshore and only assemble them in Ontario. It will likley be 3 years before we can get a plant or plants up and running. Those who manage to start manufacturing first will likley charge huge prices running the startup costs to the consumer with modules in short supply to satify demand. It is admirable that the Ontario government would like to encourage buy in Ontario, but this leaves me and others like me waiting for another three years. I would think the domestic content should be lifted and a rebate be offered for Ontario content. We need to create the market now and get up and running. Those of us that have been in the business from installers, distributors and manufactures have been ready to meet the demad for years now. Lets get this wonderful opportunity going!<br />
I see that TransCanada is building a huge gas fired generating plant in Ontario and I don&#8217;t see that they are required to use natural gas made in Ontario.<br />
Was this an oversight or by design?<br />
Rick Guthrie<br />
Temiskaming Independent Energy</p>
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		<title>By: Manny Bade</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-7134</link>
		<dc:creator>Manny Bade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-7134</guid>
		<description>Tiger says it will take 20 years to recover investment on solar PV.  That&#039;s because the cost he quoted is for $10 per Watt.  My European supplier has a tracking concentrator system that will lower the cost to $2.65 per Watt for the panels and with inverters, balance of system and installation the overall cost is as low as $5.00 per Watt.  At this cost, the owner does not have to pay out of his own pocket.  With a 5% bank loan, it will be positive cash flow all the way to 20th year.
Manny Bade</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tiger says it will take 20 years to recover investment on solar PV.  That&#8217;s because the cost he quoted is for $10 per Watt.  My European supplier has a tracking concentrator system that will lower the cost to $2.65 per Watt for the panels and with inverters, balance of system and installation the overall cost is as low as $5.00 per Watt.  At this cost, the owner does not have to pay out of his own pocket.  With a 5% bank loan, it will be positive cash flow all the way to 20th year.<br />
Manny Bade</p>
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		<title>By: Manny Bade</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-7044</link>
		<dc:creator>Manny Bade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-7044</guid>
		<description>SOLAR vs. NUCLEAR? Here are the statistics

According to the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Presentation in June 2008, the cost of building a nuclear reactor in 2008 is US$8.00 per Watt.  At the normal rate of 80 U.S. cents per C$ that would translate to C$10.00 per Watt.  A 1,000 MW reactor therefore will have a budgeted cost of C$10 Billion.  Now, with CANDU&#039;s past records of cost overruns, this amount could easily double to C$20 Billion, by the time the reactor is commissioned. 

Now we have to cost in the O&amp;M.  Operations and maintenance of a nuclear facility is not cheap.  Remember that you cannot hire technicians at $10 per hour.  These are nuclear scientists that have to be paid millions of dollars per year.  Figure in the containment cost of nuclear waste, the pond that holds the contaminated cooling water so it does not get back into Lake Ontario, etc, and you have billions of dollars in O&amp;M over the 20 year life span of a reactor.

Then there is the future cost of cleanup when the reactor is decommissioned.  Here&#039;s report I gathered from Times Union: 

Nuclear cleanup to cost billions 
State-funded study puts almost $10 billion price on effort at West Valley Nuclear Plant, New York 
By Brian Nearing, Staff writer of the Times Union, First published in print: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 

True we are paying 6 cents per kWh, but the real cost could be up to a $1.00 as subsidized by the Ontario Government, with all the above hidden costs.

Now, how much does it really cost Ontario to pay 80.2 cents per kWh for its target of 100,000 solar homes?  At a maximum 10 kW per home, that would translate to 1,000 MW of installed capacity (equivalent to 1 nuclear reactor) producing 1,200,000,000 kWh per year.  AT 80.2 per kWh, that would cost the Ontario Government C$962.4 Million per year, or C$19.248 million in 20 year OPA contracts.  That&#039;s less than the cost to build a nuclear reactor, without the O&amp;M and the costly decommissioning costs.  And with time value of money since the cost is spread out in 20 years, that would actuall only cost the Ontario Government C$12 Billion in today&#039;s Dollars.

Plus it would create all these 50,000 jobs!

Now tell me, does solar seem more costly than nuclear?

Manny Bade</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SOLAR vs. NUCLEAR? Here are the statistics</p>
<p>According to the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Presentation in June 2008, the cost of building a nuclear reactor in 2008 is US$8.00 per Watt.  At the normal rate of 80 U.S. cents per C$ that would translate to C$10.00 per Watt.  A 1,000 MW reactor therefore will have a budgeted cost of C$10 Billion.  Now, with CANDU&#8217;s past records of cost overruns, this amount could easily double to C$20 Billion, by the time the reactor is commissioned. </p>
<p>Now we have to cost in the O&amp;M.  Operations and maintenance of a nuclear facility is not cheap.  Remember that you cannot hire technicians at $10 per hour.  These are nuclear scientists that have to be paid millions of dollars per year.  Figure in the containment cost of nuclear waste, the pond that holds the contaminated cooling water so it does not get back into Lake Ontario, etc, and you have billions of dollars in O&amp;M over the 20 year life span of a reactor.</p>
<p>Then there is the future cost of cleanup when the reactor is decommissioned.  Here&#8217;s report I gathered from Times Union: </p>
<p>Nuclear cleanup to cost billions<br />
State-funded study puts almost $10 billion price on effort at West Valley Nuclear Plant, New York<br />
By Brian Nearing, Staff writer of the Times Union, First published in print: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 </p>
<p>True we are paying 6 cents per kWh, but the real cost could be up to a $1.00 as subsidized by the Ontario Government, with all the above hidden costs.</p>
<p>Now, how much does it really cost Ontario to pay 80.2 cents per kWh for its target of 100,000 solar homes?  At a maximum 10 kW per home, that would translate to 1,000 MW of installed capacity (equivalent to 1 nuclear reactor) producing 1,200,000,000 kWh per year.  AT 80.2 per kWh, that would cost the Ontario Government C$962.4 Million per year, or C$19.248 million in 20 year OPA contracts.  That&#8217;s less than the cost to build a nuclear reactor, without the O&amp;M and the costly decommissioning costs.  And with time value of money since the cost is spread out in 20 years, that would actuall only cost the Ontario Government C$12 Billion in today&#8217;s Dollars.</p>
<p>Plus it would create all these 50,000 jobs!</p>
<p>Now tell me, does solar seem more costly than nuclear?</p>
<p>Manny Bade</p>
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		<title>By: Tiger</title>
		<link>http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/03/12/continental-first-ontario-proposes-ambitious-feed-in-tariffs-for-renewables/comment-page-1/#comment-6475</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cleanbreak.ca/?p=1566#comment-6475</guid>
		<description>The 80cent only for less than 10KW. in the current marketing, the installing fee for 10KW need 100,000CAD. which consider the mentain fee, other fee, the electricity you used, you even can get the investment back in 20 years. Even you get it back, the ROI is very very low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 80cent only for less than 10KW. in the current marketing, the installing fee for 10KW need 100,000CAD. which consider the mentain fee, other fee, the electricity you used, you even can get the investment back in 20 years. Even you get it back, the ROI is very very low.</p>
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