Comments on: Lithium glut? Maybe, but what about after 2020?

By: Paul C from Austin

Paul C from Austin — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:51:59 +0000

I am not sure about Lithium only being a temporary solution- it may well be the solution- at least for many years to come, and perhaps in a different variation. For example, what is needed is a battery that will last the life of a car, be able to retain most of its power during its lifetime, and be able to be quick-charged. If a battery could be quick charged in 10-15 minutes, than building out an infrastructure to handle that type of electrical output would not be that hard. There are some current Li-Ion variations that may fit this bill, including Lithium-Iron-Phophate (from A123, Valence and BYD in China- also seen as LiFePO4)) and Lithium Polymer (from Enerdel and Altairnano, I believe, along with others). But if these do not, there is a good chance that another variation of the Li-Ion will. This is not say that there won’t another solution- whether a different type of chemical battery, or different type of energy storage- yes, like the ultracapacitor from EESTOR that may or may not come;-)

By: SonicUniverse

SonicUniverse — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:12:00 +0000

That answer is clearly hydrogen. It’s now becoming a ‘no-brainer’.

Hydrogen can be created from ANY other energy source ( solar, wind, hydro, fossil…)
We will never run out of hydrogen.
You can fill up a car tank in a minute ( compare that with a couple of hours of charging a battery )
Batteries lose their efficiancy and are unreliable when tring to determine capacity ( worse: losing power at half capacity or less).
Toxicity: Even if we combust hydrogen ( instead of a fuel cell ) the resulting byproduct is mostly water vapor. Batteries=disasterously toxic

By: mark

mark — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:26:52 +0000

My understand was lithium was always intended to be a temp solution. By 2020 there should be something that won’t just help power a car but only be needed to power it. I thought that was the goal all along?

By: Paul C from Austin

Paul C from Austin — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:06:20 +0000

Ah- just read your companion article in Technology Review, where you link to the CSIRO story from January of last year- I had forgotten that was your article as well;-) I saw a couple of months ago, that CSIRO has a contract now with East-Penn Deka Battery in Pennsylvania to manufacture their UltraBattery here in North America- it would be interesting to see a follow-up story on this battery technology with East-Penn. I know I have commented on this before (at least on other blogs;-), but I think car manufacturers are missing the boat by focussing so much just on Li-Ion- I think, at least for a few years until Li-Ion comes down in price, that a good EV could be produced using one of these Advanced Lead-Acid batteries.

By: Paul C from Austin

Paul C from Austin — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 05:52:42 +0000

It sounds like you answered most of the questions you raised within the article- Lithium is a small part of the battery, so even a 5-fold increase in Lithium would not affect battery prices that much- prices that will still go down as manufacturing processes improve in efficiency with mass production. It may cost more to extract, but not on the order of trying to extract oil from shale- there is sufficient Lithium in North America so that battery makers will not be held hostage like we are to oil from OPEC. And, as you also pointed out, a world recession and lack of mass-produced EV’s will leave a glut of Lithium for a few years anyhow.
And even if Lithium did become a problem, we could still use other battery technologies, including newer, advanced Lead-Acid, if we had to. Perhaps the hybrid Lead-Acid/Capacitor batteres of Axion and CSIRO are some of what you have in mind.
And who knows- perhaps EESTOR will also arrive sometime between now and 2015;-)

By: Annie

Annie — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:15:00 +0000

For those interested in lithium reserves and resources please be aware of the Industrial Minerals sponsored symposium (Lithium Supply and Markets, 2009) in Santiago, Chile, commencing on Jan. 26 to Jan. 30th. 2009

and those interested in (lithium) car battery manufactures please be aware of the forthcoming 26th International Battery Seminar and Exhibit and the 13th International Battery Materials Recycling Seminar and Exhibit both at Fort Lauderdale, Florida on March 16-18th 2009

By: Tom Villars

Tom Villars — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:31:32 +0000

Clever to add an EEStor tag as it probably increases hits for an article by ten fold.

If EEStor does deliver this year, the Li-Ion battery space is going to be a blood bath as some major investments become near worthless over night.

By: Lithium glut? Maybe, but what about after 2020?

Lithium glut? Maybe, but what about after 2020? — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:06:06 +0000

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