Comments on: Khosla, Kleiner put $40 million-plus in Ausra http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/ Trends, happenings and innovations in the clean technology market Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:38:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1367 Anonymous Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:29:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1367 Regarding location: near sea shores <a href="http://www.dlr.de/tt/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-3525/5497_read-6611/" rel="nofollow">desalination </a> (<a href="http://www.trec.net.au/000-CSP-Desalination-TREC.html" rel="nofollow">here too)</a> becomes a significant and often overlooked benefit. Falling watertables are an important threat to 100's of mln's op people. And this dimension of CSP delivers fresh water at competive cost. Comparable to <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2007/20070416_energy/video.htm" rel="nofollow">CSP vs coal with CCS</a>. In the shade of the mirrors and with -part of- the water produced <a href="http://www.solarpaces.org/Library/MED-CSP_05/docs/MED-CSP_Executive_Summary_Final.pdf" rel="nofollow">agriculture can prosper</a>. For food as well as bio fuels. <a href="http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/katharine_hamnett/2007/02/the_secret_secure_energy_solut.html" rel="nofollow">Why</a> is there such an overwhelming silence on this option where all sentient beings, now and in the future would benefit? Why does the EU (and the US) spend 100's of mln's of Euro's on h2 and bio fuels. Which pale in the light of the potential of CSP for electricity, water and agriculture? What helps is - the <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a8240a7c-8d5f-11dc-a398-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1" rel="nofollow">mixed blessing</a> of expensive oil - the rise of EV's & V2G (see speech by <a href="http://www.projectbetterplace.com/" rel="nofollow">Agassi</a>) Emil M Regarding location: near sea shores desalination (here too) becomes a significant and often overlooked benefit.

Falling watertables are an important threat to 100’s of mln’s op people. And this dimension of CSP delivers fresh water at competive cost. Comparable to CSP vs coal with CCS.

In the shade of the mirrors and with -part of- the water produced agriculture can prosper. For food as well as bio fuels.

Why is there such an overwhelming silence on this option where all sentient beings, now and in the future would benefit?

Why does the EU (and the US) spend 100’s of mln’s of Euro’s on h2 and bio fuels. Which pale in the light of the potential of CSP for electricity, water and agriculture?

What helps is

- the mixed blessing of expensive oil

- the rise of EV’s & V2G (see speech by Agassi)

Emil M

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1366 Anonymous Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:56:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1366 John O'Donnell In 1939 when I was six years old I used to burn holes in newpaper with a magnifying glass. Why can't you do something with that! "Syke" John O’Donnell

In 1939 when I was six years old I used to burn holes in newpaper with a magnifying glass. Why can’t you do something with that!

“Syke”

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1365 Anonymous Sat, 29 Sep 2007 03:39:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1365 And there is the no-moving-parts solar freezer that they are using in Africa to refrigerate vaccines. During the day the heat causes a chemical reaction between a refrigerant gas and a chemical solid, then when the sun drops and the temperature with it, the chemical releases the refrigerant, which then sucks the heat out of bags of water inside an insulated space, making ice for the next day's use toward keeping the vaccines cool. The only moving part is the refrigerant itself. If you google solar ice maker you can likely read about it and see pictures. Here's one: http://www.thesustainablevillage.com/servlet/display/microenterprise/display/14 And there is the no-moving-parts solar freezer that they are using in Africa to refrigerate vaccines. During the day the heat causes a chemical reaction between a refrigerant gas and a chemical solid, then when the sun drops and the temperature with it, the chemical releases the refrigerant, which then sucks the heat out of bags of water inside an insulated space, making ice for the next day’s use toward keeping the vaccines cool. The only moving part is the refrigerant itself. If you google solar ice maker you can likely read about it and see pictures. Here’s one: http://www.thesustainablevillage.com/servlet/display/microenterprise/display/14

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1364 Anonymous Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:17:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1364 Interesting. If they are condensing and recycling the spent steam, how does the cooling for the condensing get done? I've been wondering why CST can't be combined with CPV of 35% efficiency in at least on case, using 40.8% PV cells. The CPV is likely to become even more efficient. Electricity from the CPV could be used for grid and excess could be used to cool water in cooing tank. Cold water is easier to store than warm water because the vapor pressure is lower, as long as you don't freeze it. There is also a patented device that uses solar heat and gas expansion to drive a piston to push refrigerant through an aperature to provide enough cool to freeze ice. i.e. the thermal expansion drives the refrigeration. It has been a while since I read about this device. Not sure if it is still being sold. Patent for it will still be on record. Interesting.

If they are condensing and recycling the spent steam, how does the cooling for the condensing get done?

I’ve been wondering why CST can’t be combined with CPV of 35% efficiency in at least on case, using 40.8% PV cells. The CPV is likely to become even more efficient. Electricity from the CPV could be used for grid and excess could be used to cool water in cooing tank. Cold water is easier to store than warm water because the vapor pressure is lower, as long as you don’t freeze it.

There is also a patented device that uses solar heat and gas expansion to drive a piston to push refrigerant through an aperature to provide enough cool to freeze ice. i.e. the thermal expansion drives the refrigeration. It has been a while since I read about this device. Not sure if it is still being sold. Patent for it will still be on record.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1363 Anonymous Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:34:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1363 They Ausra are condensing the spent steam, and recirculating it back into the generation system; it is a closed loop. Nuke plants typically cool using a local water source, hence the recent nuke shutdowns due to that sourcewater (river, lake) becoming too hot, likely due to climate change. These solar plants are typically offered for desert environments, therefore not near any water source. Ausra holds it will air cool its condensation component, but I wonder, given the nuke examples, how temperature dependent that is, and whether desert air can provide the heat-removal efficacy required. I don't know much about this stuff, I understand the heating side of things, but the cooling side seems harder to fathom. Wondering aloud. They Ausra are condensing the spent steam, and recirculating it back into the generation system; it is a closed loop. Nuke plants typically cool using a local water source, hence the recent nuke shutdowns due to that sourcewater (river, lake) becoming too hot, likely due to climate change. These solar plants are typically offered for desert environments, therefore not near any water source. Ausra holds it will air cool its condensation component, but I wonder, given the nuke examples, how temperature dependent that is, and whether desert air can provide the heat-removal efficacy required. I don’t know much about this stuff, I understand the heating side of things, but the cooling side seems harder to fathom. Wondering aloud.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1362 Anonymous Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:11:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1362 Centralized solar and geothermal machines aiming to displace coal and nuke plants are great, but I think their claims of no GHG emissions are not completely true. They do produce steam and water vapour is the most powerful of greenhouse gases. Is the effluent steam from such plants being condensed, and if so, is the energy required to do so also being sourced by the plant itself, and if so what does this do to the energy-in versus energy-out equation? Is the spent steam considered an externality? Centralized solar and geothermal machines aiming to displace coal and nuke plants are great, but I think their claims of no GHG emissions are not completely true. They do produce steam and water vapour is the most powerful of greenhouse gases. Is the effluent steam from such plants being condensed, and if so, is the energy required to do so also being sourced by the plant itself, and if so what does this do to the energy-in versus energy-out equation? Is the spent steam considered an externality?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1361 Anonymous Thu, 13 Sep 2007 03:17:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1361 I hope their market focus includes displacing natural gas used for themal applications. I hope their market focus includes displacing natural gas used for themal applications.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/comment-page-1/#comment-1360 Anonymous Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:36:00 +0000 http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2007/09/09/khosla-kleiner-put-40-million-plus-in-ausra/#comment-1360 This design looks better to me in that it has one collector for a number of troughs -- that has to be a money saver. Stephen This design looks better to me in that it has one collector for a number of troughs — that has to be a money saver.
Stephen

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