What’s in store for EEStor?
Back in September it was revealed through a BusinessWeek Online story that Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers had invested $3 million (U.S.) in a Texas battery-technology startup called EEStor Inc.
According to the BusinessWeek article, the company was founded in 2001 by former senior managers at Xerox PARC and IBM. Little information is known about EEStor, which prefers to operate in stealth. In fact, to this day it still doesn’t have a corporate Web site.
However, BusinessWeek did learn that EEStor has developed a “parallel plate capacitor with barium titanate as the dielectric,” and that it claims to make a battery at “half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight of lead-acid batteries.” It also learned that EEStor planned to build its own assembly line to prove the technology works, and following that, would license the technology to manufacturers for volume production.
Last week BusinessWeek reported an interesting comment from Kleiner’s John Doerr, who recently spoke at a California event where tech VCs gather to make their predictions for the year. Doerr reportedly referred to an investment in an energy storage company he declined to name, calling it Kleiner’s “Highest-risk, highest-reward” investment.
This is a big deal given Kleiner’s history. Keep in mind that this is the venture capital company that struck it rich with early investments in Google, Amazon.com, Netscape and AOL — all household names of the online world. The company is now going after similar success in the energy market.
Given all this, I’m super curious about this EEStor company and what it’s working on. And here’s what I’ve manage to dig up myself, beyond the useful tidbits from BusinessWeek:
* A simple Google search reveals that EEStor has a relationship with a Canadian maker of low-speed electric vehicles called Feel Good Cars, which I’ve written about on this blog several times. According to a press release from Feel Good Cars released on Nov. 15:
“On September, 30, 2005, FGC entered into a Technology Agreement with EEStor Inc. located in Austin, Texas, to acquire the exclusive worldwide right to purchase high-power-density ceramic ultra capacitors called Electrical Storage Units (ESU) that are under development by that company. An ESU can store over 10 times the energy of lead-acid batteries and are expected to be available for use in the ZENN and regular electrically powered small cars. FGC’s exclusive worldwide right is for all personal transportation uses under 15 KW drive systems (equivalent to 100 peak horse power) and for vehicles with a curb weight of under 1200 kilograms not including batteries.”
On top of this release, a reliable source familar with EEStor had this to say about the company’s technology:
* The batteries fully charge in minutes as opposed to hours.
* Whereas with lead acid batteries you might get lucky to have 500 to 700 recharge cycles, the EEStor technology has been tested up to a million cycles with no material degradation.
* EEStor’s technology could be used in more than low-speed electric vehicles. The company envisions using it for full-speed pure electric vehicles, hybrid-electrics (including plug-ins), military applications, backup power and even large-scale utility storage for intermittent renewable power sources such as wind and solar.
* Because it’s a solid state battery rather than a chemical battery, such being the case for lithium ion technology, there would be no overheating and thus safety concerns with using it in a vehicle.
* Finally, with volume manufacturing it’s expected to be cost-competitive with lead-acid technology.
“It’s the holy grail of battery technology,” said my source. “It means you could do a highway capable electric city car that would recharge in three or four minutes and drive you from Toronto to Montreal. Consumers wouldn’t notice the difference from driving an electric car versus a gas-powered car.”
These, of course, are bold claims. But given Kleiner’s involvement in this Texas company, you can bet the promise is there. Without a doubt, this will be a company to watch, and if the above claims prove true, this could have a profound impact on transportation and large-scale renewable energy production/management.
EEStor could, indeed, become the Google of the cleantech world that VCs have been looking for.
Tyler Hamilton is senior energy reporter and columnist for the Toronto Star, Canada's largest daily newspaper. In addition to this Clean Break blog, Tyler writes a weekly column of the same name that discusses trends, happenings and innovators in the cleantech market. This blog is a personal project started in April 2005. It is not an official blog of the newspaper. Tyler can be reached at tyler@cleanbreak.ca
January 20th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
So basically they are making a better ultracapacitor.
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/about_supercapa.html
Jack
January 20th, 2006 at 6:19 pm
A helluva lot better ultracapacitor, from the sounds of it.
February 17th, 2006 at 12:53 pm
It mentions that the ultracapacitor is 1/10th the wieght of a lead-acid battery. It doesn’t say the size of it though. But from the third-last paragraph, it seems it must also be the same size as a standard car battery?
March 8th, 2006 at 7:54 am
At the risk of sounding a bit shallow….
I remember reading several sci fi books over the years mentioning a device called a ‘batacitor’. This device stored energy like a capacitor and released it like a battery. The device could supply a year’s electricity for a family.
The core of these stories was the ‘law of unintended consequences’ caused by these devices…the portable power allowed people to opt out of society – to move to the deep woods or remote islands…with all their energy needs taken care of.
Secondly, this device plays into a running argument I have with a young marxist co-worker. He believes in the zero-sum economics theory, and at 24 has a hard time believing that innovation and productivity can create wealth out of thin air.
March 29th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
Check out http://www.ci.cedar-park.tx.us/CivicAlerts.asp?AID=126 – about the middle of the page. Prototype ZENNs and “another major announcement for May”
September 21st, 2006 at 4:57 pm
this is a means of storing energy, not generating it out of thin air. However, something like this might be useful in terms of storing energy for use over the darker winter months…
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:03 am
As a capacitor engineer, I fear there are two fatal flaws, one of them literal. Their calculations, in patent 7033406, do not take into account the voltage and temperture coefficients of capacitance. Under the conditions of use, they will only have about 10% of the power they need.
Secondly, even if that were not the case, the strorage of that much energy, roughly the equivalent of 100 sticks of dynamite, would be released if the capacitor shorted.
September 23rd, 2006 at 5:19 pm
Do You believe that ultracapictors will ever become feasible? If so, then what are the hurdles that EEStor must overcome based on their patents?
I’m a curious attorney, not an engineer.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:14 am
If it’s real, and they’re serious then I’m certianly intrested in licensing it for a number of applications. I’m already in the process of raising funds for a number of environment initiatives and would be happy to talk to these people when they’re ready for market.
Hmmmmm…….
Michael
http://www.sterling-bond.com
September 26th, 2006 at 6:50 am
US Patent 3288641 issued 11/29/1996 to Standard Oil Company looks pretty similar.
September 26th, 2006 at 10:43 am
This blog entry is just as irresponsible as all the hype about cold fusion and the like. There is ZERO solid science behind this, no evidence, but tons and tons of hype. This is not a trend, this is not a “happening” (unless snake-oil sales qualify as a “happening”), and it’s clearly not an innovation.
Unfortunately, this entry makes everything else written by the author immediately suspect. Tyler, if you’re not willing to apply basic science when you write about technology, maybe you could write the weekly horoscope instead.
Please stop doing a disservice to everyone who doesn’t have a decent background in science by glossing over obvious technical obstacles presented by this “idea.” It’s fun to think of the backyard mechanic suddenly discovering something technology-oriented that has eluded trained engineers for decades, but there are no credible cases of this happening in the last 30 years. – Tim
September 26th, 2006 at 11:40 am
The battery is 360 pounds from the patent info.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
Tim, yes, there is tonnes and tonnes of hype. As for zero solid science — well, if there was then I guess we’d all be driving electric cars by now and the oil industry would be dead already. I don’t think it’s irresponsible to draw attention to the claims of a company that has managed to tweak the interest of the U.S. military, the world’s most successful venture capitalist and the former vice-chairman of Dell Computer. Who are you, anyway, to be labelling something — or me — irresponsible? If you don’t like the blog entry, then go somewhere else.
How can you say it’s “clearly” not an innovation? And yes, there are obvious technical obstables — which I’ve mentioned in past writings, smart guy — but there are also technical obstables for fuel cells and clean coal and other clean energy technologies.
Do you know anything about the background of the people behind EEstor, at least enough to call them “backyard mechanics”? If there’s anybody who needs to do their homework, it’s you. I don’t mind opinions floating around here, but not from grumpy, type-A science know-it-alls.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Here Here Tyler. Tim is probably a fearful oil baron lackey. I follow technology trends and hear people like him every week. Yes, this has a lot of marketing hype, but to compare it to the snake oil claim that shouldn’t even be talked about by decent people, seems a little ridiculous. This company has some serious backers and has been mentioned in big media like cnn.
Besides, these guys are keeping hush hush, so it isn’t like they are trying to con us out of our money.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:47 pm
Tim, you seriously need to get a life. Tylor did a great job talking about a company and it’s possible future developments. To call ultracapacitor technology snake-oil just points out how foolish you really are. Jjust stick to reading the peer review articles in your favorite science magazine: it’s very scary out here.
September 26th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
As a concerned oil baron, I insist that this ridiculous technology be ignored! Just pay it no mind. It doesn’t work anyways!!! Oil is the only future as far as I am concerned.
Pete Roleum
September 26th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
Humour is welcome.
September 28th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
By the way, Tim… If you did some research into cold fusion, you would have also found that those who criticized the lab test results (i.e. MIT) retracted their findings after it was discovered they purposefully doctored their analysis. Motivation – they were very heavily funded in “Hot Fusion”. There have been numerous publications by multiple reputable Universities stating the results were in fact repeatable and observed.
October 1st, 2006 at 7:15 am
Yes, look like that its all about capacitors. personally I think that it will take a lot more time to commercialise this.
ביטוח רכב
October 8th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
Not so. There is at least one credible case of a self-described ‘back yard inventor’ coming up with a technology that revolutionized tradional thinking on technology, science, and physics.
See for yourself. Google “UltraSonic Sound” and the “LRAD” and the inventor of it in the last 4 years. The inventor happened to be awarded “Inventor of the Year” from Popular Mechanics (or Popular Science ??). I saw him speak and demonstrate directional sound in the Fargo Dome in October, 2003.
Unbelievable !
‘Directional sound’ eluded trained engineers for decades … NASA, Sandia, DND. Luckily, the one who invented it didn’t do the background research that would have proved it wasn’t ‘doable’. Instead, he just went ahead and invented (and has now commercialized) the LRAD.
SEE FOR YOURSELF
For the latest 7 minute documentary on ‘directional sound’ or UltraSonic Sound search the tv listings area and watch Discovery Channel’s for the following program.
http://www.discoverchannel.ca/tvlistings
Future Weapons: Future Shock
Mack reveals the weapons that military units will fight with in future battles; more sinister and subtle than anything that’s been seen before, these weapons can destroy entire cities in the blink of an eye.
Kindly,
jeff@jeffchapman.com
http://www.jeffchapman.com
EEStor has me very interested. I’m already thinking of innovating using EEStor powered boat engines, airships, etc etc. A Business 2.0 FANatic.
October 14th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
But clearly, true science is not.
Sorry to have been away for so long. Real work (paid for by… uhm… science) got in the way.
I stand by my comments. These guys are hacks, and the only reason they get the time of day is that there are people who will read reasonable comments from me, and immediately assume that I have a vested interest in the existing energy companies. I don’t. I’m a project manager at an IT startup, and have worked in that industry since I finished college.
However, there is humor present on this site, but it’s accidental. For anyone with ANY experience in science, looking at the test results of cold fusion demonstrated nothing but lazy research and poor documentation. EEStor is cut from the same cloth as Pons and Fleischmann (should have gone with the slogan “I can’t believe it’s not fusion”).
Yes, I’ve done a bit of research before I made my comments, and not just to pseudo-science sites that confirm tin-foil hat fears. The EEStor people have ZERO science behind their claim, and it’s baffling to me that anyone reading these pages would assume otherwise. I also know that sometimes there are discoveries that a “backyard mechanic” makes that someone else has missed, but these are VERY rare.
The worst part is that you have devoted so much space to bogus science, that the real innovations that are taking place, the strongest contenders for actually reducing our dependence on foreign oil… are lost in the noise.
Yes, hybrids are great intermediate options. Yes, battery technology MAY move forward, but there are energy density questions that are probably better addressed with fuel cells or other methods of storing energy. I love the fact that someone is trying to bring to light every possible “trend, happening, and innovation” in terms of clean energy, but I wish you would at least apply some basic “does it sound like I’m getting something for nothing?” questions.
EEStor is making the classic “I’m bein’ repressed” (in Monty Python style) call from someone who realizes that they’ve been caught with a lot of hype and no science.
Here’s a deal. If EEStor turns out to be something other than snake oil, I promise that I will post a picture of myself on my blog with a massive headline that says “I was too stupid to believe in EEStor.” I will sing their praises and spend a full week apologizing for my ignorance. Are you willing to do the converse and admit your gullibility when they’re proven to be bogus?
Ooops… I forgot. That never happens. Why is that?
Why was cold fusion rejected? Why did the chemists who applauded the first demonstration reject the second? Simple. The “results” were not scientific, and not repeatable. “Here, let’s hop in my cold fusion car and see if it produces any energy today! Hmm… better wait to go to work tomorrow when the rules of science work in my favor.”
So on this site, we get personal attacks instead of someone stepping up to the plate and giving a rational scientific explanation for how EEStor is going to make this happen? Ooops… that’s proprietary information. Right? They can’t divulge their research… can’t tip their hand… can’t give good scientific explanations because… hmmm… maybe they don’t have any?
October 14th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
It was not one or two people who criticized the cold fusion work… it was anyone with a serious background in physics who examined their work. yes, there are things going on that they did not understand and there are questions unanswered.
Please. Share the “numerous publications” and “multiple reputable Universities” that repeated these findings.
October 14th, 2006 at 1:04 pm
Go somewhere else? Sure. I thought you might be interested in serious discourse about real science. I didn’t realize the blog was about fiction.
My mistake.
I’ll go back to being a grumpy, type-A, science know-it-all. Even though it’s so much less interesting than fantasy.
October 14th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Tim, it’s not that your opinion is not welcome. Of course it is. What’s not welcome is when your opinion is accompanied by insults — i.e. that I, and others who post opinions or information here, are basically idiots and that only you know what’s right in the world. I do have other friends — engineers, scientists, etc… — who are skeptical of EEStor, but they don’t rule it out as impossible and they keep an open mind. In fact, they’re not skeptical of EEStor’s claims as much as they question the ability of the company to overcome the many major obstacles to reaching them.
This blog is open to discussion. What you’re basically telling us to do is shut up and stop talking about this company. That’s what’s not welcome here.
October 19th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Tim,
You’ve criticized lack of scientific rigor, but I haven’t heard you make a scientific case against the technology. Why do you think it’s snake oil? Did you read their patent disclosure (it’s available over the internet)? What parts do you have issue with?
You also wrote ‘EEStor is making the classic “I’m bein’ repressed…” ‘ Can you give a source for that assertion? I haven’t read anywhere that they have said anything of the sort. They aren’t actually claiming that their device violates the laws of physics here.
Stephen
October 19th, 2006 at 6:45 pm
Anyone who hasn’t gotten excited over a technological development that later turns out to be a dud probably hasn’t been contributing much to technology for long. The path of progress is littered with duds. I know a number of competent engineers and scientists, and I don’t know a single one who has not pursued with vigor multiple duds.
Some duds are more seductive than others. Sometimes the promise of an idea is so bright we are blinded to the obvious. Sometimes test data is so compelling as to challenge our scientific and engineering understandings. Of course, most of the time, what’s too good to be true is just that: too good to be true. If long shots won every day, they wouldn’t be long shots. But if long shots never won, no one would ever bet on them.
EEstor appears to be a long shot. But is it any more of a long shot than Lithium-Sulfur batteries, on which a number of competent engineers and scientists have worked for years, little-by-little solving one bedeviling problem after another?
Perhaps it will be a great success. Perhaps it will be a complete dud. Or perhaps it will turn out that the specific energy is more like 150 Wh/Kg, and the cost/KWh is double that of lead acid, and it will take 5 more years to get there. Maybe it could still be a commercial success.
One thing is clear: charge storage will play an increasing and critical role in the future of transportation energy. Because of the efficiency and ease with which electrical energy can be generated from multiple sources at fixed locations, because of the efficiency and ease with which electrical energy can be delivered over an underutilized existing infrastructure, and because of the energy storage efficiency of advanced batteries and capacitors, there is compelling incentive to store charge more quickly with more density and at lower cost.
Which charge storage technology will be dominant at the point in time when more car miles are driven using electrical energy delivered from stored charge than using energy generated by on-board liquid fuels is hard to say at this point.
There are bound to be duds along the way, and many professional lifetimes of competent research spent exploring paths that don’t pan out.
October 20th, 2006 at 9:21 am
I have read both patents, and I have three specific issues: They do not realize that high K BT ceramics decrease K dramatically with temperature and voltage, and they assume little change to the K when they add two flux-like glasses, whose K is less then 100..simple law of mixtures. I have dozens of patents in this field, I know a little about what challenges they face.
Anyone heard what happened to their May announcement, did they make one?
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:20 am
Someone pointed out a third patent (actually a published world patent application, which has not been approved yet):WO 2006/026136 A2. It describes the addition of their Hi K powder to a plastic matrix that produces a film with a K remaining at 19,000.
There are five companies, including 3M and DuPont who make similar materials, all of them have a K of less then 100, and the Dielectric Center at Penn State has written a paper showing how a K of about 100 is the theoretical maximum.
Gee, maybe they are in a differnt universe, with different rules.
And if the reader is familiar with patents, look at this patent and see how impressed you are.
October 29th, 2006 at 12:05 pm
I agree with your comment on the Marxist. Having been intrigued with some things socialist in the past, and once attended an International Socialists seminar, I definitely noticed that zero-sum attitude you mentioned, a scarcity-based mentality, and their fervent belief that all production not only comes, but must come, from human labour, with some minor use of tools. They showed an absolute aversion to cost-cutting even where wages would not be lowered, innovation, even productivity increases via tooling improvements, automation, and quality control. Their reasoning is that jobs would be lost, and the workers would suffer. When I mentioned to them that workers could be moved to other jobs with no loss in pay, given reduced hours of work to prevent job loss, and have a less arduous time on the job, they were dumbfounded at their prior lack of understanding, giving me no counter-argument.
Tom Fenton
October 30th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Tyler and John
I am new to this discussion and this field of interest. What started my interest was about 6 week ago when I linked onto an article on a BMW Mini (note: BMW has nothing to do with it) that would do 0 to 100 in less then 5 seconds. My provided link takes you to some of the spec. on this car.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2060724.006/page/1/country/ecf/lang/eng/mini/pml-builds-640hp-electric-mini
I in no way am promoting a 640 Hp electric car, but this IS the only correct type of hybrid, that being serial. This car has all electric (very bizarre “Wheel motors” 10 cm wide and 421mm in diameter) of 160 Hp on each wheel and I believe the demo was of the motors and the control systems. They said, (this did not look like tested statements but where statements based on analysis) because of the regenerated feedback and the high use of Ultracapacitors (11 Farad), the user should be able to drive for about 4 hour in Urban drive before needing a recharge and that on long trips they had an ATP. The ATP was a 2 cylinder 250 CC ICE engine which would generate 20KW peck and 15KW sustained power and that the car should get about 60 to 80 mpg (I assume driving less then 55 for 80 mpg and over 75 for 60 mpg). As I said, I believe these statements are coming from the sales department; however, it does not seem out of the question technically.
From there I found an Li Ion battery driving a mid-size all electric SUV between 110 to 200 mile with only a 10 minute recharge, this of course blow my mind. The link is to the battery developer and then take the link to “Dr Evan House’s ZEV presentation (.pdf)” in which he explained the batteries concept and how the batteries work. The heart of the process is a Li Ion battery using nano Lithium Titanate based Anodes. Their latest news letter to me (26 Oct 06) indicated they completed 15000 deep cycles and still retained 85% of the original charge capacity. They said, that 1500 charge cycles translates to greater than 40 years if charged daily.
Along the way I did a search for Ultracapacitors and came up with this discussion, but prior to that I found http://www.maxwell.com/index.asp and they have a number of capacitors available now. The costs are quite high for using Supercaps for all storage, but as a hybrid with batteries and caps, these should work well.
I was hoping that someone will know of a discussion on Dye Solar. If so, would you please provide direction to that discussion?
Lastly, this is the first time I have written to one of these discussions and I hope I did not violate too many rules and I f so please let me know so I can do better next time.
Thanks !!
October 31st, 2006 at 2:11 pm
Very interesting discussion.
The problem with current super- or ultra-capacitors, as they are called, is that they are usually only rated at 2 volts. The EEStore “claims”, in round numbers, 30 Farads at 3000 volts. Since the energy stored is the cap times the voltage squared, the energy needed for the hypothetical drive system is 270 million joules. (30 x (3000^2)). So with the Maxwell type capacitor, one would need (if they are 10F at 2 volts) something like 6 million capacitors.
Can you imagine how much room that would take?
November 14th, 2006 at 9:59 am
It could be possible to make ultra caps using a barium tiantate ceramic dielectric and a Metal-organic frameworks (MOFs), pronounced “moffs, to have an electrical storage capacity equal to gasoline or better instead of nickel plates. Surface area is just as important as dielectric.
December 28th, 2006 at 7:26 pm
I agree with John I work in the field of power and ultra cap r&d the k is not what eestor claims , I will take a wait and see time line but would put a big bet on the technology not living up to its claims
robert
January 15th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I think we will wait a long time.
In the meantime, here is something similar that does seem real:
http://hybrids.autoblog.com/2007/01/14/phoenix-motors-takes-order-for-75-electritrucks/
January 15th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Are there any news from “the holy grail of automotive technology”? Or did they just quietly faded into the sunset.
January 15th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Thinks for that link! I have been looking for this news. This is a good start and I know they have placed orders for 500 sets of the batteries for 2007 and 6000 for 2008, so I hope that plans fails. I hope they sell more then 1000 this year.
I’m not going to get into the discussion on EEstor, but 3000 Volts is a strong dielectric!!! I had mentioned Maxwell Capacitance as another Ultracapacitor source. In the response it was list as 10 C time 2 V **2, but that should be 2700 C times 2 V **2. It still is a lot of capacitors, but if you start with 2700 Farad, it doesn’t look as bad. It looked like it was about 2 CM square by about 10 to 16 CM long. They listed a number of voltages from 2 to 15. I’m not a Cap designer, so I was wondering. For these double plate caps, there is the powder charge component and something between them. I assume this to be something that has a high punch through factor (I’ve forgotten proper name – I think this is a dielectric factor). In any case, is this the part that you all were talking about between 100 and 1900 or was it the powder?
Tom McGreer Green Works
January 16th, 2007 at 8:51 am
Tom:
First, we should make clear that what Altairnano has developed for Phoenix Motor Cars is a battery, not a capacitor. The battery stores energy chemically, the capacitor stores electrical charge. I still maintain we are not likely to see capacitors of this energy level for a very long time, if ever. The Maxwell type of capacitors are very high in capacitance, but very low in voltage. The “dielectric” is actuallly a double-layer of charged ions. It cannot be made thicker, so it is destined to remain only a two volt or so device. If one puts five in series, the assembly can be charged to 10 volts, but each capacitor still has only two volts across it. To get a 3000 volt device would be conceivable, but not practical, in my opinion. 1500 capacitors in series is scary and takes up space.
The “powder” in these parts is usually carbon. There is a liquid, usually a mild acid, to provide the ions to conduct and make up the double layer
The term you were thinking of is “dielectric strength”..close enough.
January 18th, 2007 at 11:39 am
EEstor had a pr yesterday.
EEStor Announces Two Key Production Milestones: Automated Production Line Proven and Third Party Verification of All Key Production Chemicals Completed
CEDAR PARK, TEXAS — (MARKET WIRE) — January 17, 2007 — The first EEStor, Inc. automated production line has been proven to meet the requirements for precise chemical delivery, purity control, parameter control and stability.
In addition, EEStor, Inc. has completed the initial milestone of certifying purification, concentration, and stability of all of its key production chemicals notably the attainment of 99.9994% purity of its barium nitrate powder.
The independent 3rd party chemical analysis was completed by Southwest Research Institute, Inc. located in San Antonio, Texas under contract with EEStor, Inc.
With these milestones completed, EEStor, Inc. is now in the process of producing on its automated production line, composition-modified barium titanate powders and is moving toward completing its next major milestone of powder certification.
It is anticipated that the relative permittivity of the current powder will-either meet and/or exceed 18,500, the previous level achieved when EEStor, Inc. produced prototype components using it engineering level processing equipment.
Richard Weir, CEO and President of EEStor, Inc. added: “We are very proud of the key advancements we have made over the past year. In addition to the milestones identified, the Company has also been awarded a critical patent related to our technology and has 12 additional patents pending. We have built a state-of-the-art facility and have exceptional personnel onboard.”
The first commercial application of the EESU is intended to be used in electric vehicles under a technology agreement with ZENN Motors Company. EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles. The production EESU for ZENN Motor Company will function to specification in operating environments as sever as negative 20 to plus 65 degrees Celsius, will weigh less than 100 pounds, and will have ability to be recharged in a matter of minutes.
ABOUT EEStor, Inc.
Headquartered in Cedar Park, Texas, EEStor, Inc. is dedicated to the design, development, and manufacturing of high-density energy storage devices. Utilizing revolutionary ultra capacitor architecture and environmentally friendly materials the EEStor, Inc. EESU will compete against all existing battery technologies. The EEStor, Inc. EESU IS capable of microsecond recharging and millions of 100% charge/discharge cycles. The technology is affordable and designed for versatile “racked and stacked” configurations.
January 18th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
WHAT!!!
They obtained and analysed a pure chemical. Thats news? That purity is not unusual. And, surprise, they got a lab to analyse another labs analysis and “certify it”
It used to be Barium Titanate, now its Barium Nitrate? One is a ceramic dielectric, the other is a soluble salt.
I think what people are clamoring for is a third party certification that they have a capacitor that is 10,000 times more efficient than any on the market
SHOW ME THE MONEY!
January 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
I agree BUT
If one looks at the news release, they are saying they have made a 15 KWH 100 pound Cap. It does not say how many volts or what the capacitance is. If they have it and they send it to Zenn; then we should know what is up or not soon.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:50 am
The way I read it, they are “on track” to producing that capacitor.
I’m “on track” to become a multi-millionaire…
January 19th, 2007 at 7:56 am
100 grams of High Purity Ba Nitrate (#202754) from Aldrich:
$115.
Outside analysis, including certificate suitable for framing:
$250.
Non-peer reviewed paper from hungry graduate student:
$400.
Misc glassware, including colored water and bubbler:
$1500.
Patent filing fees:
$1200
Ability to continue the con for another year:
Priceless
January 20th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Interesting comment. I have also been impressed with Woody and his ultrasound system. I visited his lab in San Diego and had lunch with him. He is an interesting character, and his “directed sound” development is real.
He is not, however, the classic “garage inventor”. He is a millionaire many times over, and can afford the occasional “long shot”
The point is though, that the hype should not overcome logic. In Woody’s case, the displacement of the sound source is based on proven science. In EEStor’s case, people are caught up in a dream they would like to believe, so they suspend their logic and reason.
Those of us in the capacitor business have our own agenda, this is true. I am personally fighting to get funding to do this same development, and have this “fakery” thrown up at me.
But, all anyone has to do is contact ANY capacitor person, if not in industry, then at a school, such as Penn State Dielectric Center, Alfred University’s Inamouri School of Ceramic, University of Illinois, Florida State…the list goes on. Any neutral knowledgable person, beyond reproach, would label the EEStor capacitor for what it probably is, a vehicle to make at best a poor investment, at worst a scheme to make dishonest people rich.
January 20th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Sorry to take so long, been away.
The problem is in the definitions. “supercapacitor” and “ultracapacitor” are terms that are either trademarked or hyped. In the usual sense, they refer to a capacitor which has very high capacitance, on the order of Farads. A Farad is a lot of capacitance. With Ceramic Capacitor technology as it existed twenty years ago, it would be the size of a desk.
The “dirty little secret” about capacitor marketing, (and I confess to be a part of it) is that “they” don’t acknowledge the voltage rating. At that time, ceramics were rated at 50 volts. Tantalums were rated at 6 volts, (and sensitive to polarity) and could claim microfarads (0.00000m Farads) instead of nanofarads.(0.00000000n Farads)
So, a decade ago, out come the “Supercapacitors”, with values measured in “Farads”!!!
“Aha”, we all said, “… they are only rated at 1.5 volts!”
In many instances, it does not matter. BUT for power sources, it sure as hell does.
The energy of a capacitor is determined by the capacitance times the voltage squared. So if you want a lot of energy, choose voltage as your dancing partner.
So, a commercial supercapacitor being sold today by Maxwell, for example, may have 1000 farads at 3 volts, which is (1000*3^2), or 9000 joules of energy. That really works well on audio amplifiers, which many of us appreciate at stop lights with the audio capability the “tricked out trucks” (I think that’s the term) have.
But real power, the stuff of “back to the future” and being able to run automobiles, will require a hell of a lot more. 35-50 KVA is about right for a 4 passenger auto to go highway speeds, and have a range of a couple hundred miles. It will take about 30 Farads at 3000 volts.
BUT, here is the leap…we cant make supercapacitors with higher voltages then 2-3 volts. We cant make ceramic capacitors in the farad range, and we cant rate the ceramic dielectrics at 300 volts per micron, which is what EEStor claims.
So, to answer your question, supercapacitors cannot, IMHO be made to accomplish this within the foreseeable future, if ever.
January 22nd, 2007 at 12:40 pm
There is a similar company who would try to tell you that cars can fly. Maybe now they can do it with unlimited battery power.
Another example of a continuing con
http://www.moller.com
January 24th, 2007 at 8:51 am
“Feel Good Cars Corporation (“Feel Good Cars”) (TSX VENTURE:ZNN) today announced that it has filed a preliminary short-form prospectus with the securities regulatory authorities in the provinces of British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario in connection with a best efforts equity financing. The offering will be led by Paradigm Capital Inc. Final pricing and determination of the number of common shares to be sold under the offering will occur immediately prior to the filing of the (final) short form prospectus in respect of the offering.
Feel Good Cars expects to use the net proceeds from the Offering to repay $270,000 in unsecured short-term loans and interest thereon, approximately $2,100,000 to fund the payment of all future milestone payments to EEStor, Inc., $500,000 to fund product development and the balance for working capital and general corporate purposes.
Closing of the offering is subject to certain conditions, including but not limited to, receipt of all necessary securities regulatory approvals, including the approval of the TSX Venture Exchange.
This press release does not constitute an offer of the securities described herein in any jurisdiction. The securities described herein have not been and will not be registered under the United States Securities Act of 1933, as amended, or the securities laws of any state and may not be offered or sold in the United States absent an exemption from registration.”
Wow, 2.1 million to continue EEStor’s fun…
January 24th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Yes, they have a big venture capital firm backing them, but the sum is quite small. This would indicate that the venture capital firm sees it as a long shot.
And why are they hooking up with a penny ante Canadian company that makes 25mph toy cars? If they were truly on the verge of a breakthrough wouldn’t they have an agreement with Toyota or GM?
January 25th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Your’re right, Dave.
Chances are the big car companies would excercise due diligence, and check out EEStor’s far-out claims. (or, maybe they did!)
January 31st, 2007 at 3:27 pm
The biggest drawback with going with one of the big car companies is that they have a habit of burying technologies that will take away from the “agreement” they have with the big oil companies. I have met a person that created and built a bolt on devise for cars that would increase the fuel mileage by three fold. Do you think the big car companies would allow anything on the market that will put their position with the big oil companies in danger? Why do you think there is such a lack in the development of more fuel efficient cars? When these EEStor units come to market then the auto makers will have to do something to keep competitive. Personally I would like to purchase some of these EEStor units to install aboard my sailboat.
Just my .02 Later.
January 31st, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Your “genius” fiend, and I suspect that you as well, belong in a looney house.
February 1st, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Thats the silliest thing I ever heard of. The car companies are motivated by PROFIT! Why would they turn down an opportunity to get ahead of the foreign competition?
Get real…this is America, and we are a capitalist country, remember?
February 5th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Look at ferroelectrics in wikipedia. Note the strange break points. That is where innovation lurks.
February 9th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
EEStor will never build this Ultracapacitor. It will never work. They’re calculations are wrong. It’s too good to be true. It’s a scam.
Perhaps. But I’m willing to give them a chance to show it will work. After all, it’s not costing me anything for them to pursue their dream. And history is chock full of inventions that were absolutely impossible, until someone actually invented them.
Besides; the world has always been full of naysayers who will tell you what can’t be done: “You can’t sail around the world, you’ll fall off the edge.” “If man was meant to fly, he’d have wings.” “Sorry Mr. Bell, but there’s just no future for your telephone invention.” “Why would anyone want a personal computer, what would they actually do with one?”Ad infinitum.
I say be patient, and give them a chance. What in the world do you have to lose? And look at what the world has to gain.
February 10th, 2007 at 8:36 am
I was an IT support guy. I know how easy it is to be critical. I highly recommend meditation. It helps. BTW, EEStor is slowly coming out of the closet.
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=204515
February 10th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Taylor, in the your interview with EEstor, was there any indication that they actually have a working device?
February 11th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
What we have to lose is time, and the money being diverted to someone who has a real product. There are several reasons why this will not work.
I have a machine that makes things fall up! Wanna invest?
I have an aversion to people scamming when there are real projects to be funded.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I’m a stock broker, and would like to invest, but as someone cleverly pointed out, I can’t. When people are trying to scam you they make it very easy for you to give them your money. I have a check written and can’t find a place to send it to buy any EEstor. You can be pretty sure that if they want to keep it to themselves, then it’s something worth having.
February 21st, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Not necessarily, they can get private investors to give them money without having to adhere to the FTC rules, using that same logic, “its too good to share with the public.”
But, you can invest indirectly by buying into “Feel Good Cars”, they are floating a new stock issue to be able to pay EEStor some $2.1 million for the continued development of the “battery replacement”
What is that expression of “Fools rushing in…”
March 6th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Can you explain better? The square of the voltage is proportional to the total energy stored. What’s the role of temperature?
Tanks
March 6th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Tyler;
I read your interview with EEstor as well as their press release. I understand that later this year they intend to ship energy storage units to Feel Good Cars. However I would be interested to know whether you got the feeling that they actually have a working device that was tested, or do they still base their plans on theoretical calculations.
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Somebody at feel good cars told me it was twice the size of a regular car battery
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Are you saying that they will actually deliver a product? I doubt it.
June 28th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
It’s could be a great opportunity, but think about the implications on the fuel producers, about their reaction to this alternative. The low speed vehicles were no competition to a real car, but this could cause a revolution…And now, with a small business founding anyone could have their own battery recharge station, not so expensive to make as a gas station.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:31 am
It would be wonderful if Eestor capacitor actually would work, and I wish it would. However, not all executives of oil and auto industries are stupid and yet: 1) The oil industry has investments plans totaling well over 100 billions, some of it in very expensive oil (such as oil sands). They don’t seem to be intimidated by Eestor plans. 2) There is no lineup of auto industry executives outside Eestor’s gates.
Shouldn’t this tell us something?
August 8th, 2007 at 10:05 am
If you read the patent you will see that they are using a new di-electric that has much more resistance to the electric charge (more resistance to its electrons being striped from their orbits) and also compounding that with the new super caps plates. For your information Maxwell makes capacitors capable of 3000 farads. Don’t believe it check it out for your self.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7033406.PN.&OS=PN/7033406&RS=PN/7033406
below is the patent so you guys can read the patent and not have to rely on people just say this and that with out sources.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7033406.PN.&OS=PN/7033406&RS=PN/7033406
Quote below from patent follows:
FIG. 1 indicates that a double array of 2230 energy storage components 9 in a parallel configuration that contain the calcined composition-modified barium titanate powder. Fully densified ceramic components of this powder coated with 100 .ANG. of aluminum oxide as the first coating 8 and a 100 .ANG. of calcium magnesium aluminosilicate glass as the second coating 8 can be safely charged to 3500 V. The number of components used in the double array depends on the electrical energy storage requirements of the application. The components used in the array can vary from 2 to 10,000 or more. The total capacitance of this particular array 9 is 31 F which will allow 52,220 Wh of energy to be stored as derived by Formula 1.
Also scientist are pushing for geo thermal power. If we can convert much of our power grid we can power our cars that way if this capacitor pans out. In all it would bypass all emissions. We need this to work one way or another and soon. Its already been proven scientist have shown that the sun is not responsible for our planet heating up. In fact its been cooling since 1985. Want the article? Go to http://www.newscientist.com and search for sun cooling. or go to http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn12234-suns-activity-rules-out-link-to-global-warming.html
August 13th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Very well said sir. common sense tells us that it is all smoke
and mirrors. If it were true, the world’s transpotation fuel
problems would be over, but it’s not, and it never will be.
In 1969 a rocket went to the moon, and there has been
little meaningful advancement since then. I’m not an engineer,
just someone who prefers not to live in fantasy land.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
The proof is always in the putting. EEStor is contracted to deliver a battery to ZENN Motors by years end. If they do and it works all speculation is moot. The important part is the work is being done. Investigation and investment in ceramic technology, ultracapitors, compostie materials and solar fibers will move things forward. Combustion has always been a bad answer, ever since your monkey uncle struck a flint to the peat bog. Let’s move this thing along.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
I just googled on EESTOR and saw their domain name for sale by EEStor. Not a good sign. Darn! I was rooting for them to change the world.
September 7th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
This is great news! I’d buy one in a heartbeat and I really don’t care to hear all about the supposed downfalls. I think we all know where those comments originate.
September 7th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
No worries – that web site (eestor.com) belonged to a German clothing company. It never belonged to the secretive Texas start-up (as they’re often known).
Google ‘eestor.com’ and look at the references that come up in German. You’ll see links to the old web site.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Yes, columbus thought he had circumnavigated the world. No, he hadn’t, and was discredited. But yes, the world did change, in a most disruptive manner. Any one of our billions and billions of steps can be significant, and not necessarily in the ways we expect.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:02 am
So speaketh the ostrich.
Are you saying that those people familiar with the difficulties should shut up?
Let the scammers be!
We need more Barnums, less critics.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Is anyjone aware of the new technology patented by Reticle Inc.? (USPTO 6,350,520)
This process develops activated carbon electrodes which are far superior to Aergel as it starts with activated carbon and improves it’s surface area and conductivity dramatically.
Aerogel (Lawrence Livermore Labs) starts with a polymer and reduces it to a gel like activated carbon in a thin film (.032) Reticle Carbon(C) can be inches thick and reduces activated carbon material by only 10-30% Aerogel reduces the polymer by around 90%
Reticle has produced a 400,000 Farad capacitor in the lab.
We are presently working with investors overseas on various projects including desalination using Capacitive Deionization.
This technology shows promise in many areas includin: Power grid load leveling, hybrid and electric autos, Wind and solar farm energy storage and fuel cells as well as inexpensive desalination. \
Reverse Osmosis is presently costing $3.00-4.oo per 100 gallons to produce with high capital outlay. It also uses a lot of power to force the water through the filters. A Reticle Cell (1.5 volts) can clean water to drinking standards at around $0.11 to $0.15 per 1000 gallons at far less capital and energy expense.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:22 am
If you did not see my posting I can tell you there is some new technology called Reticle Carbon (USPTO 6,350,520) that will far outperform EESTOR.
The process treats raw activated carbon to produce carbon electrodes with superior surface area and conductitity.
I read their patent and they deliver 52KWH in a package that weighs more than most NFL lineman, 336 lbs! That is less than 3KWH per kg. The Reticle Carbon cap delivers 7.5 KWH per Kg and I will bet that it costs far less to produce.
Contact sct@socal.rr.com
February 5th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFcylXFGTgk
See a work Protoype of a Batacitor, Awesome !!!!!! When will it be available to
the general Public???????
April 5th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Does anyone know if individual small investors can invest in EEstor Inc. If so, please let me know how.
April 9th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Just curious … what’s the dynamite equivalent of a 20 gallon tank of gas and a match?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Hay does anyone know if this batt\cap have the same Energy density as liquid fuels like gas or other
automotive fuels?
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
The above article was posted on Thursday, January 19th, 2006 at 7:17 pm. Today is April 2, 2009.
Going on at least 4 years and no one outside Dick Weir’s dream world has seen a working prototype.